God and Evil

Chris and Dani, I almost laughed out loud at your posts...not because they are funny but because those were exactly the questions we discussed, wrestled with, even struggled with in our theology class. Isn't that THE question: "If God is good, how can evil exist?" So I don't have a clear and easy answer, and our entire class and Dr. Bart Box agreed there isn't one, but I have some thoughts that might be worth pondering.

1. Before my theology class, I had read a little on this question and one point was made (by Lee Strobel I think) that, philosophically speaking, in order for good to truly exist, evil must exist. Without evil, good is meaningless and everything in the universe is really morally neutral. Again, philosophically speaking.

2. The other thought I've always held (without giving it a whole lot of consideration) is that for humans to be truly free and be able to choose God, there has to be an alternative. We can't truly love God (which is His desire) if we don't have any other choice. So evil must exist.

3. In our class we agreed that it is difficult to fully understand God's relation to evil and we admitted that as finite humans we will never fully understand an infinite God (not even in heaven!). But here's what we do know:
- Nothing exists apart from God's will. God has ordained that evil exist. Otherwise there is a force out there outside of His control and that is not at all what the Bible teaches.
- God is all-powerful in the sense that nothing happens outside of His ultimate will. However, He does have one limitation - He cannot behave in ways contrary to His character. He cannot sin. He cannot commit evil.
- In the end, all things occur for God's glory (and ultimately our good).

So we must conclude that God allows evil to exist, God does not ever directly cause evil, and that He works all things, good and bad, for His glory.

Chris, I'm giving you a run for your money on lengthy posts here...

A couple more thoughts (aren't you glad you asked? :)

1. As a parent, I've found one analogy very helpful for understanding God's relation to our suffering. I remember taking our girls as babies to get their shots. I knew this was for their good. That in the end I was doing what was best by subjecting them to the pain and suffering of 3, 4, even 5 shots at once. But oh how I hated to see them hurt. And how hard it was that I could not possibly explain to my infant why they were hurting...why I was allowing them to hurt...appearing to just stand by and watch them suffer, or even worse appearing to participate in their suffering. All I could do was offer love and comfort and assure them (even though they couldn't understand) that it was for the best. I often believe that God feels just this way when suffer because of the evil in the world. He allows it knowing in the end it's for our best...but our small minds can't comprehend it. And I do believe He hurts with us. Jesus cried when Lazarus died because His friends were hurting, even though He knew He was going to raise Him from the dead. Sometimes I cried while my girls got shots even though I knew it's what they needed. God detests evil (more than I detest needles being poked into my babies) and He never delights in our suffering, but He does allow it and direct it and I believe someday we will better understand how it all fits together. For now I'm trusting that He is in control, that He is good, and that Satan's dirtiest schemes will only serve to bring God great glory in the end.

2. Finally, yes, finally, Randy Alcorn, one of my favorite authors has a new book out and I think the title is "If God is good..." and it addresses this issue. No idea what he says but it's on my list.

Just my thoughts...
:)
-holly

The Plan

I wonder what God’s plan was for the creation? I mean God is the “all knowing” so he had to know that number 1, there was a serpent out there with some not so good intentions, number 2, he had to know that when persuaded, Eve would take the bait, and that Adam would as well, right? He also would have had to know that as he walked up to them, they would scatter and be ashamed. He gave them a choice, a garden with ample amounts of “safe” nourishment, a tree of life, that basically was morality, and a tree with the knowledge of good and evil. As I was reading I didn’t think of him as the “all knowing” until Dani and I were chatting afterward then I realized it was part of his plan. So there was the answer to my question. He knew that he would give them the choice, he knew there would be an adversary, and he probably knew they would disobey him. (Basically the same choices that each and every one of us have to make every day)

(Here is where I was wondering if gdad bumped his head when he asked me to be a part of this cause I can make this go on for a long time :))

Was this is divine plan? Or was he really disappointed when Adam and Eve betrayed him? Was his plan to have people running and playing in the garden, eating from the tree of life, shamelessly happy, with no disease, no death, eternally standing in a light of morality, worshiping the Lord God? Wait….Sounds like heaven. :)

The beginning of evil

I sure do wish Genesis was longer (or at least more detailed), because the beginning of time is a pretty big subject! I'd like to hear your thoughts on when and why evil began. The serpant appears to be evil, however he is one of the creatures that God created and deemed good. Everything that "is", is created by God right?

Also, did people really live to be 900+ years old??

d

God the Creator - response

Yes, I was noticing that about God's name(s) too. It was once pointed out to me that Elohim reminds us of God's greatness (power) and YHWH reminds of us God's goodness (love/relationship with His people). Interesting to note that when the serpent tempts Eve, he only refers to Him as God, not LORD God. Isn't that always true of Satan, to make us question God's goodness? Yes God is great and powerful but does He really love me? Does He really want what's best for me? Praise God, LORD God, that He is not only all-powerful but that He is LOVE and we can trust His goodness.
- holly

A Time of Firsts

I was reading through Gen. 3-5 and it struck me that in these 3 books, we have a few 'firsts' in human history. I have read over these passages so many times and never stopped to take in what this truly means. Of course, we begin with the first blatent disobedience to God by man. (I like to think that I would never have fallen for that pathetic story from Satan, but we have the benefit of context and we fall for far less everyday.)We have the first lie in history (Gen. 3:4-5). We have the first death in history with the death of the animals to clothe Adam & Eve's shame - symbolic of Jesus' death that would cover all of our shame. We have the first human death, and it is a murder no less.(Gen 4:8) And finally we have the first natural death in the death of Adam.(Gen 5:5) What must life have been like to the first people? Can you imagine the terror that people must have felt to see Adam die? Or to realize how far they had fallen to see a brother murder another? All of this because of one lie! Thank you Jesus for the price you paid to save us from our sin.
-jes

God the Creator

This is an interesting observaton to me: In reading Genesis 2 the term "LORD God" is repeated several times. In the ESV (and many other translations) LORD (all caps) stands for YHWH which is the personal name of God. The exact pronunciation is uncertain because the Jewish people considered it to be too holy to be spoken. Then the word God that follows comes from Elohim which means The Creator. So we have YHWH Elohim or God The Creator.

I have no problem believing that the omnipotent YHWH Elohim could have created everything in 6, 24 hour days if He chose to do so. But I’ve often wondered when He said “Let there be….” did it just pop into being or did it fast forward into being. One moment it wasn’t there then the next it was. No tree then pop full grown tree. No fish then full grown fish. Or did it fast forward … no tree, then seed, then sprout, then trunk, then leaves, then acorns or pecans, or peaches. Or no fish, then single cell, then multiple cells, then body, then larger size, then eggs. I don’t think it really matters but somehow I feel that a God who was creating order out of chaos did it in an orderly way. And if that is the case could that explain some of the fossil records that exist. However He did it, how amazing it is that creation was brought about not through some battle or struggle but through the loving care of a Faithful Creator whose desire was to share Himself with His creation… us.

Creator God

As Caiden says "In da beginning, God ated da heavens and da earf. Genenis 1:1" Basic. So simple even a 2-year-old gets it.

Our year starts with Genesis 1:1 and if I'm not careful I'll skim through it not stopping to really absorb the majesty of our God, Creator God. God who simply speaks and life begins. God who is unimaginably creative, able to create tiny cells and majestic galaxies.

I enjoyed this video clip (goes along with my new book - thanks Chris and Dani for the gift!).

You might enjoy it too as you start to ponder the creation and what it reveals about the Creator.

http://www.crazylovebook.com/videos_awe.html